TRANSCRIPT
Creating the Space to Lead with Anathea Chino
SEASON 1 · EPISODE 1
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Welcome to the #BeTheBossNow Podcast and I am your host Gregory Allan Datu Cendana, President and Co-Founder of Can’t Stop! Won’t Stop! Consulting, Chief Creative Officer of Greg Dances and #1 International Best Selling Author of Be the Boss Now Book: 15 Key Steps to Start, Run, and Grow Your Own Business.
So often, people don’t take risks because they are afraid of failure or rejection.
As an openly gay, Filipino American who was raised in a working class, immigrant, and Catholic household, these experiences shaped my values and the entrepreneur and leader I have become and led me to found and run different companies and nonprofits. I’ve also built a business that grew during the pandemic while creating opportunities and increasing access for people from diverse backgrounds.
The #BeTheBossNow podcast will lift up the stories of different folks who identify as Black, Indigenous, Latinx, Asian, Middle Eastern, woman, queer, people with disabilities, and those living at the intersections of multiple of these identities.
I believe there is a boss in ALL of us - especially for those of us who have historically lacked representation in leadership. Furthermore, when we embrace fear and failure as inspiration to guide us on our journeys, it will be for the better and in service to making our biggest, boldest and most audacious dreams a reality.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Anathea Chino, Acoma Pueblo, is a Queer Indigenous woman working to create pathways that ensure women of color, Queer people and Indigenous people are visible and represented in the U.S. political landscape. Anathea has more than 18 years of experience as a political strategist, fundraiser and operative at the tribal, state, and national levels.
Anathea co-founded and is the Executive Director of Advance Native Political Leadership, the first and only national Native organization aimed at addressing the underrepresentation of Native Americans and local and state elected leadership. Previously, she worked at Ultra Violet, Democracy Alliance, and Neiman Marcus.
Anathea was selected for the She The People's 20 for 2020, a list highlighting women of color and politics to watch in 2020. She currently serves on the National Board of Directors and Advisory Boards of Americans for Indian Opportunity, California Native Vote Project, Emergent Fund, and Inclusv. Anathea is a Co-Principal for the Women's Democracy Lab, a project created to radically re-imagine what leadership looks like and ensure Indigenous women and women of color can thrive in elected office, a co-founder of Indigenous Women Rise, and a founding Board Member and former President of Emerge New Mexico.
She also served as a mentor for the Fannie Lou Hamer fellowship through the Sandler Phillips center. During rare moments, you can find Anathea adventuring with her partner, their six-year-old and their adorable dog. Thank you again, Anathea, for joining us for the Be the Boss Now Podcast. People have been asking, you know, what is this podcast about? And so one thing that I'm telling them is that be the boss now is about having the agency to decide what a boss means for yourself to live your wildest dreams and make change in your respective communities.
And so to start us off, I would love to know what does it mean to you to be a boss?
Anathea Chino: Hi, Greg, thank you so much for having me. This is really an incredible, it's such an honor to be here. To be a boss, it's such a, an interesting thing to sit with. I feel like, um, leadership is such an interesting thing in the pathway.
My pathway to leadership has been very interesting. I think for me it means that I have a tremendous amount of responsibility to discover, to lift up and support more people to come into their own leadership positions and their own awareness that they are leaders, and intentionally use my role as a space to create pathways and visibility for Queer Indigenous women.
It also means that like when, like when I am a follower and when my role is to be a listener and to create spaces for others to lead, it also means for me that I know that I don't have all of the answers and that we're relying on, like my close network of advisors and friends is absolutely critical. It is a constant learning process for myself.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Thank you for sharing that, Anathea. You know, as I'm reflecting even on my own journey, I was thinking about how there was a lot of fear of failure or rejection.
And as I've been, you know, hearing other stories and, and understanding what's stopping people from actually being the boss now or starting their own business.
People are afraid to take the risks because of that fear of failure or rejection. And, if anything, I found that experiencing those setbacks and failures have actually taught me my greatest lessons and strengthened my sense of self. And so, as you were reflecting on your journey in leadership and being a boss now, can you tell us about a time when failure or rejection was actually your friend?
Anathea Chino: So much rejection. I, Greg, I worked in development and fundraising and philanthropy for over 15 years. Rejection is like a very close acquaintance of mine. I'm very used to being told, "No." I have hundreds of those stories. I think failure actually makes me think of launching a national organization at the start of a pandemic.
And the setbacks have like truly been astronomical. We planned for years to launch it by Advance, and move forward with it in August of 2020. Every plan we envisioned had to be re-imagined. The process has required that I also have had to grow, adjust my own expectations of a leader. I have very high expectations of myself and those around me and my fear of failure and launching a national organization that I was so deeply invested in the success of made me slow down and evaluate my decisions and our ideas of success.
We had a wildly successful year and I'm so honored to lead the organizations. We learned so many lessons along the way. And it was really the - it was the trying and like, and testing and then saying like that didn't work. So let's go back and let's try it again, or let's try something different or, you know what, it's not the right time for this.
And so all of those pieces have become very - they used to be unsettling and I feel, I feel less unsettled in that process now, which has been really incredible.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: No, I appreciate you telling the story of kind of how you started in Advance. Can you share a little bit more about like what led you to, to start it?
What was, what was that impetus to say, this is the organization in this moment?
Anathea Chino: For sure. So it started in, well, I got started in politics in 2004 and very quickly realized as I kind of like moved through, like the, um, the political rooms in New Mexico - I got started in New Mexico - is that there were very few Native people in like the, in the rooms where it happened.
So, like, at the decision-making tables. I later moved to Washington D.C., where I was in, um, was had the ability to be in the rooms where national organizations and high net wealth individuals were making decisions about the entire country in terms of political planning and strategy. And again, there was a lack of Native people in those spaces, people weren't talking about Native Americans or Native communities in any of their strategic plans, or very few of them were, and where the financial resources were, resources were going weren't to those organizations that actually had some sort of intention or in, in sort of like attention on Indigenous communities.
So constantly having those conversations with my peers and with people and talking about like, where are like, where's the plans? And where's the people that are leading this like national strategy for Indian country? Then led us in like a group of trusted advisors: Chrissie Castro, who is Navajo Chicana based out of L.A., and Laura Harris, who is Comanche and the Executive Director of Americans for Indian opportunity. And I, the three of us set out to write and do a year-long research project that was funded by the women donors network of their reflective democracy campaign to better understand how we would create a more reflective democracy. That whitepaper then led us to discover that there was like a number of challenges, barriers, and opportunities.
So our next step was if we were going to take small little bites of like, figuring out how to solve this and achieve parity and build political power by and for Indigenous people, what would that look like? So in 2016, Advance Native Political Leadership was born. There are four Co-Founders. Chrissy is one of them, Kevin Killer, who is the current President of the Oglala Sioux tribe in South Dakota, and is a former state Senator in South Dakota and Peggy Flanagan, who is a White Earth Nation Ojibwe. And she is the current Lieutenant Governor of Minnesota. So the four of us co-founded Advance in 2016 and led the organization as an all-volunteer project until we hired staff in 2020, and now we have a staff of three full-time people - full-time employees and one part-time.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Beautiful. Appreciate you sharing that. I, you know, I'm thinking about reflecting on you saying you moved to D.C., and then had the chance to be in meetings and spaces and particularly with high wealth, high net individuals. Can you share a little bit more about what that experience was in philanthropy, what that experience in philanthropy was like and how that informed your perspective, and the need to create pathways to ensure that women of color and Queer people, that Indigenous people are visible and represented?
Anathea Chino: Greg, the imposter syndrome was real. I remember walking to - and you and I are friends from D.C. - and I remember walking from my apartment in D.C. to the organization that I worked with and I would have to listen intentionally sometimes to like certain playlist and like music that would hype me up and like, get me ready to walk into these rooms.
I think the experience of philanthropy, like ultimately demystified for me that anyone has more value than any human being. And that was a really long trajectory in order for me to be there. I started my professional career as a manager at Neiman Marcus in Las Vegas. And so working with people who had access to financial wealth was something that I was familiar with.
And I always say there's no better, better political education than working in full commission of luxury store, retail, retail environment. So carrying that into the experience in DC as something that like, I was kind of familiar with the nuances of like, of the intricacies, I guess, and kind of like some of like the quirks of people that have high, high net wealth. And, but it also took an a huge amount of courage to believe that I was also as worthy in these spaces. And for so long, I struggled with the imposter syndrome. And I used to look around the rooms and look for other people that were like me and there weren't any. And likely, there still aren't very many now.
And so I had to remind myself to take up space. And I'm incredibly introverted. So this is a challenge for me on a number of different levels, but I realize, and this was actually, I remember having a conversation with another friend, Steve Phillips, who was partner at the organization is that, like, he told me one time in a meeting that our ancestors died in order for us to be able to have a voice in these spaces.
And in moments, when I remember thinking that I was just feeling very nervous, is that like, I would like hear Steve's voice and I would take with me all of the inspiration of... of the work, and the "why" I was doing it, and be able to walk into those into those rooms, and take up space and ensure that women, Indigenous women, Queer people were brought into all of those conversations because without somebody, without that intention and that space, it never would have been mentioned.
And that's the, that responsibility carried me very far.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: As a dancer, you can imagine that I'm trying to imagine what that Anathea hype playlist included. Is it, was there a particular artist or a song that you included in that playlist?
Anathea Chino: It's really interesting. So at the time it was like, I don't have it any longer because it was like on an iPod, I believe - is that they were called back in the day?
But I had it on like an iPod, but it was actually a list of, um, my, my stepfather is a Head of our song society at Acoma Pueblo, where I am from. And he had recorded some songs and I used to listen to our traditional songs and I was going in and it was like the sound and the feel of the drum beat that I would like, like kind of like walk to and take with me as I was going into those spaces.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: That's awesome. And you know, and I'm, I'm holding to the feedback you were saying, you got from, um, our friend, Steve Phillips around, you know, our, our ancestors fought for us to take up space and be in these spaces. You know, and, and you kind of mentioned now a couple of times about how in many times, and in many spaces or any rooms, you are the only Indigenous person and maybe the only Queer person and likely the person that's living at all those different intersections. Can you share a little bit more about, you know what was an integral part to your journey and believing in yourself? Because I feel like that's, that's a theme that's coming up is like part of the courage, part of what folks are saying is like, we have to believe in ourselves and in our people.
Can you share more about what helped your journey in that?
Anathea Chino: Absolutely. Um, it ebbs and flows. I mean, right now I have pictures of my great-grandmother and my grandmother and my mom on my desk. And my great grandmother and my, my grandmother journeyed home many years ago, but I can still vividly hear my grandmother's voice talking to me - and they are my medicine! They remind me that I am strong, that I come from a long line of women who paved their own way and that they are always with me. I feel absolutely positive that I'm surrounded by my ancestors and family members that have passed on and that they want me to succeed. All along the pathways and walking into those spaces is like, I could hear my grandmother.
She used to call me TD and I can like, just hear it so vividly. And I was like, okay, grandma, like, and she was just, she was very like she she was very rigid and I was just, you know, like, know that I had to get into those spaces. But in moments when I'm feeling, I guess, like the weakest and um, not quite as strong, I can like hear her kind of like scolding me into, into like erect position, stand up position and to walk in and know that I'm there for a reason.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: The story of your grandmother really resonates because I think about my grandmother a lot. Uh, she, but one thing that she did when I was growing up, she was a domestic worker and she actually invited me to join her at a lot of the different places that she was working out of. And I got to just see firsthand, one, just how hard care work is, how integral care work is to all of our lives.
And she always used to tell me she was like, you are, there's nothing that you should feel, uh, you should humble yourself and there should be nothing that you wouldn't, you shouldn't feel comfortable doing or at least willing to try. And that really stuck with me too. I was like, man! She was like, you know, she's like, yes, I'm cleaning, I'm cleaning up after these folks who aren't necessarily able to, or yes, I might be changing this adult diaper or yes, I might be doing this particular thing. And so she just kept on reminding me, she was like, none of us are above this. And that these are all parts of life and providing care for the ones that we love and that are in our lives.
And we just have to hold that in. So that's kept me humble and grounded through my experience and journey.
Anathea Chino: Yes. Yeah. You know, it makes me think of, I've been having conversations with a number of people when talking about, like, their beginning journeys as well. And for all of us, it was the memory of being in the rooms with our parents.
Like particularly, usually like our mothers, wherever they were working or whatever meeting they were a part of for me and my mom, um, has her doctorate degree in education. And I remember endless hours in the library sitting in her little cubby with her or her taking me to her student meetings or, you know, that there was constantly this like memory of like, of her not having childcare, which I hadn't really took the time....
Um, I thought we just did all the things together, but clearly she just didn't have childcare. So like it's all of these people that are going to these, either these community meetings that are in these spaces, which then reminded me as I like went to D.C. and realized that like, largely children are supposed to be invisible and you have to find care for them.
So you have to be able to have the financial support in order for them to be taken care of outside of these spaces, when that's actually not how our communities operate. And so the way that, like, I've been thinking of like my own role as a leader, is it like we have to create spaces for people to have children, because it is important that they hear these conversations that we're having and that they are a part of these spaces as well.
And know that they're growing up with it with this memory, that I was a part of these conversations that were happening when I was a kid. And now they are the leaders that are going to be uh, paving their own path in years to come. So it's a really good point of kind of like our beginning stories.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Yeah, absolutely. And as you're even reflecting on that, it's made me also think about the, the importance of really thinking about interdependence, right? Like, like we, like, we don't do these things or many things on our own. There are lots of people, lots of networks of folks that are nurturing us that are supporting us.
And we may not even see or engage with some of the folks who are integral to making a meal happen, making, doing the behind the scenes work, to have the technology that we can even engage in this conversation, thousands of miles apart, you know? And so I appreciate that as a grounding reminder that yes, there are folks that have supported us that have inspired us since we were young and people continue to support us as we continue to do these things right.
And make our ability to do different things even possible. So thank you for that, that reminder. It's so true.
The next question I want to ask you is around, um, how you navigate identity? And in the communities that you are part of, in the sectors that you are part of, and in particular, how, how has it, if at all, shifted over time?
Anathea Chino: It's drastically shifted. In our community, we often talk about the experience of walking in two worlds, Western culture, and Native culture. My friend and mentor, and she's also the President of Americans for Indian Opportunity, LaDonna Harris, says that there's only one whole identity that exists for her all of the time.
And you cannot separate yourself into parts. As someone who grew up on and off tribal lands, I grew up mostly between Texas and New Mexico. It was life-changing for me. Until then, I'd really compartmentalized most of my experiences. I'm a very private person. I didn't come out until my forties. So over time it has like shifted for me.
And there's rarely a conversation at any space where I don't bring up the fullness of my identities as an Indigenous Queer woman. And that - that's a huge shift and it has to be done with intention. I think that so much of the way that we kind of like ebb and flow through life is really figuring out how to be a chameleon in some spaces and when to like, kind of bring some identity forward and then in this space, and then you kind of retreat and then you bring a different identity forward in this space.
And that required a lot of time, energy, and a lot of thought often. That is really unfair to a lot of people. And so I think like, as society has changed and there's been so much social change in the last 10 years is that it's really allowed the space and the strength and awareness and even safety in a lot of places, to be able to like, be exactly who you are in all of the spaces. And it's something that we're very intentional about and how we're building out Advanced Native Political Leadership leaders. Political leaders previously looked very assimilated and there was like a, there was a view of what it looked like to be somebody that was in political office.
And that often left out all of the people who didn't fit that - just that visual view. And that's inaccurate! And our leaders should look like us and they should be reflected above us and they should have colorful pasts, and they should have experiences that are similar to us so that they can then fight for legislation and policy that is going to change how we behave and like, how we are protected by the government and all of the systems that we have to navigate.
And all of those had, um, coming into like, I guess where I am right now, which I feel very solid in my identity for the very first time in my life. I feel so comforting. It is a very different way to exist in the world. And I'm deeply grateful for it.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Thank you for sharing your story and being so vulnerable.
I, I know that there, you know, we all have our journeys, and in particular as Queer people, as I also identify as Queer, like, I think that there are different ways in which Jose Antonio Vargas likes to say, we don't come out. We let people in. And I think there are different reasons or different ways in which we let people into the fullness of our identities, including our sexuality and sexual orientation.
And you, and you talked a little bit about how you... it wasn't until your forties that you were able to do that. Can you share a little bit more about that experience and, you know, was there a particular moment that helped you say, you know what, this is, I'm okay with sharing this? Or, I'm okay with letting folks in on this?
Or was, is there something that maybe you want to offer to folks who are struggling with this right now, however old they may be? And are considering or want to let folks in or come out? And what would you encourage or tell them after sharing that experience?
Anathea Chino: It's such a great question.
I think the thing that, like I was most pleasantly surprised by is that the network of friends, family, close advisors, are exactly who I thought they were. And so it was like every single time I would like, you know, kind of build up this conversation in my mind. I would practice it out loud. I would say it.
And then I would, like, the first time I said it was to one of my nearest and dearest friends and she invited me over for dinner. And I was like, I have something to tell you. And, and I was like, starting to cry. And it was like this like whole thing. And she was just like, you're Queer. And I was like, you didn't even let me say it!
And she was like, and then like, it was like every conversation that I had after that was like, "Cool. We know. Where-- are we going to go to dinner?" You know, like it was just like regular schmegular life. And it was like, things just went on and it was like that then like affirmed for me that that I had been on the right path in terms of creating a network of people around me who were going to love and support me regardless of what choices I made in life generally.
And, that. That we have come so far in ways. And that it just was part of conversation. And that was like, that was like my non-Native, largely like my non-Native community. The Native community really wanted to have some deep conversations about it, very loving, but wanted to have some deep conversations about it.
I think the thing that blew my mind the most was when I had I'd had, because I am so private and because I'm such an introvert, I often don't spend time talking about myself in spaces. I'm often more of like the listening role. And my partner had told me about why it's so important to have these conversations, particularly as a Native woman in spaces.
And it took me a long time to kind of get there. And what really came out as I had a conversation, I was coming out to my nine-year-old cousin last summer, and I wanted to tell him because I just, I felt like he and I have always been very connected. And so I told him, and I even had the same sort of buildup. And I was just like, I need to tell you something.
And so we had this, like, it was just him and I in my high school bedroom and we were talking and he was staying with my mom at the time. And then he hugged me. And he said, I love you. And he said, I know. And then the very next day he said, I have to tell you something. And I have a picture of him doing this.
And he wrote on three pages and the first page he wrote, "I", and the second page he wrote "am", and the third page he wrote "gay." And I was just like, and I looked at him and I was just, and so we had this conversation and I was just like, you know, like the, like he's nine. And so he was just like, I know he's like, I have access to the internet.
I know like what everything means. And it was just like this awareness of like, of course it matters that I say this, of course it matters that he has somebody that is, that is an example of telling him that like, Yes! Yes you are! You get to be supported. You get to be safe. You get to be all of exactly who you want to be at nine.
And his entire life looks so different from mine because he is able to say those words. And so through the rest of the time that I was like that we were kind of sharing this space together. We went through and told my family together, we told my parents, my family, and then it has then been a trajectory of like figuring out how to help him navigate the rest of the world, which is, like, going to be full of ups and downs, but it was a stark reminder to me that it is important to have these conversations. And for me to feel very comfortable in saying so many things out loud in ways that feel very vulnerable and private for me is that... that actually is really important to connect with other people and to create space for other people.
And so I think that has been like the biggest lesson. And now it's just like, I'm constantly talking about it in spaces because it's important and it matters that people have examples.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: That was such a beautiful moment. Thank you for letting us in on that, that story and experience. It's and I appreciate you saying that because there's many moments where people are always like, well, you always have to mention you're gay.
You always have to mention you're Queer. And I'm like, And there's actually, I was reflecting as you were talking. And two reasons why I do that: one, is because I feel like I've come a long way in my own journey and I want to, and I want people to understand and know that, like, that wasn't always the case for me.
And that me as affirming myself in front and it happened to do it in front of other people is a reminder of how far we've come, but also how far I've come and how far more, we have to go. And two, for me, I was continuing to do it because every time I would do it, and this is before the pandemic, especially when we were doing a lot more in-person events, at least one - and sometimes multiple people - people would come up to me and say, "Thank you for saying that you were gay," or, "Thank you for saying that you are Queer.
I am too." Or, "I am part of the LGBTQ2IA+ community." And it's great to know that there, there are those of us who are willing, and out, and sharing these stories, and engaging with folks. And so I held that really close. And I'm like, okay, I need to hold this - not just for myself, but for the broader community, even if they may not say it, I, I have to believe that there's a chance that this could touch someone, or inspire someone, or encourage someone, or uplift someone to be their full and whole authentic selves.
And I, it really, I really appreciate how that you, that you embodied that even for family and for folks, who, for a younger generation who, I think, it gives me so much hope about the possibilities of leadership - of just this new world that is going to be built, and these folks are coming into, um, are going to be so radically different than what I think we grew up in.
I'm really looking forward to hopefully seeing that come to fruition.
Anathea Chino: It's so true. I often think of like, for me, where it becomes very apparent is like when I'm back and because of like the pandemic, we haven't been able to be in like our traditional kind of like environment, like our traditional cultural experiences and ceremonies.
But when we are, there are very specific gender roles and there are very specific kind of spaces for men and women. And it makes me think of kind of like prior to contact, like, Pre-Contact. The fluidity of like how we existed in the world and like how these roles can, like, I'm constantly talking about with my immediate family about this process and about how fluid we were before and like really talking about decolonizing, our mindset around different roles and how important that is to have that conversation or reminder of going back to our ancestral Indigenous roots, and how important that is. And how it makes me feel powerful.
And knowing that, is, like, the experience, and having to be able to have these conversations from a different - a different place, and being able to bring in my young cousin into these conversations, and show examples of how he is very much beloved and there's space for him in this world. And like other people who are coming in.
And then it also makes me think of like how I have to be really intentional as someone who is straight-passing, I guess. And so like a number of spaces having to be intentional about talking about, like, my partner, and talking about Queerness, and talking about our family dynamic, and having a six-year-old in the space, and being able to raise a kid, and all of the ways that it is very much pointing out to a lot of like my straight friends and a lot of like our community about what the, what it is, what is different about it and why it's important that it is acknowledged all along the way.
So there's so much to bring into the space. I will also say one other example that has been really powerful is that when we are recruiting for Native leaders to run for office or Advance Native Political Leadership on our form, we have a question about identity. And there's pronouns, and then there's also sexual identity.
And I am so surprised, and I'm guessing that this is because we've created the space for it, how many people are self-identifying as Queer. And it is, it is not the thing that I actually expected to kind of rise to the surface, but the fact that we get to say that it's a fairly significant portion of the people that are coming into our space are identifying as either non-binary or identifying as Queer, or like of the LGBTQ community. And that's so hopeful for me, is that there's so many people that are going to be coming, and coming into these spaces of leadership that are leading with Indigenous values that are of, that are family. And so that gives me just so much hope.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Here's to generations and generations of Queer bosses.
Anathea Chino: Yes!
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Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: And speaking of Queer bosses, I'm curious, is there, is there a Queer boss that you draw inspiration from? And would love to hear why.
Anathea Chino: Yeah. You know, like I, so I always think back to this moment, I was an ambassador for Americans for Indian Opportunity in 2008 and 2009. Part of that experience is going to Washington D.C., and kind of experiencing the government side.
But we also take a trip to the Smithsonian of the American Indian and go through the archives. And like have access to some of the archives at the museum. And all of us, of course, naturally like migrate to like the communities that we're from. So I went to the the, the space for Acoma Pueblo and started going through a lot of the pottery and so many pictures.
And there was a picture of a nonbinary person in a picture. And I'd never seen that before. I'd never had a conversation about it before. I'd never seen anything like it. And it blew my mind. And so I started asking people and I was showing everybody, I was like, look, look at like, do you know who this is? And, like, through like further research, it actually opened up so much for me in that time.
And so I always refer back to like this, this photo, and then the photo of We'wha, who was an Lhamana person, from Zuni Pueblo, which was near Acoma Pueblo. There are 19 pueblos in New Mexico. Zuni is one other from the mid 1800s. And they are a powerful nonbinary leader, who like moved fluidly through traditional Pueblo culture and Western culture, met the President of the United States.
And prior to Pre-Colonization, as I mentioned, there were many gender fluid leaders in my community, and it's not even anything that we talk about. But when I think of, and have like, since learned more about We'wha and the person who was then using their positioning to be able to like talk and educate and share and and fight for their community in different spaces.
It is like, they are someone that I draw like inspiration from on a regular. And feeling that you were kind of like often in spaces where, where you have to be able to like migrate through several different spaces while maintaining the strength of the wholeness of who you are. And so they, they maintain to be kind of like the view.
When I think of people, I have my grandmothers - her line of grandmothers, and I have the picture of, from the Smithsonian of the American, not the national Smithsonian, the American Indian, in my mind.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Oh, I appreciate you bringing We'wha into the space. And I appreciate that because I think sometimes people make, sometimes I feel like there's this sense that these terms and things that we're trying to talk about are so new and the reality is that they're not new and many of us are catching up and actually learning about things that our ancestors and TRANScestors, as some like to say, knew about or were living and were, and were actively being and existing. And so it's important that I think more and more people hear and learn about these folks as a part of our history, HERstory, our story, but also about about our grounding.
And they're a continued reminder that we could be who we are and that we should continue to inspire others to do the same. So I appreciate you bringing that into this space.
Anathea Chino: It's so true with such a, like it's an intentional invisibility of our own stories. And it makes me just feel very... um, but there's just, there's a lot to come back and that really like where we were in again like Pre-Contact, and kind of like who the people, and now, like our traditions were like very much rooted in exactly who we are, who we are and who we need to get back to and who we need to be reminded of. And so I feel deeply grateful for the reminders and the ability to be able to have access to... to be able to learn more about them and be able to decolonize as much as possible in the spaces that I have access to.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Absolutely. You know, you sharing that. And as I'm also thinking about this barrage of news, that's coming our way around redistricting, around laws that are meant to exclude Black, Indigenous, and People of Color, and even the question of the idea of democracy. Like it's actually a reminder that the systems that we are living in were designed to actually work against people like us.
And so even in such a challenging, in these challenging times and this type of news, how do you maintain hope in yourself and in others?
Anathea Chino: Oh, this is such an important question. I quickly want to like touch on what it means for us to be able to bring more Indigenous leaders in this space and really address the piece around democracy, because it is something that we have a, is a constant question about bringing more people into a system or asking and inviting more people into a system that has largely been traumatic for our communities, and has not been designed for us to be not only successful in, but to participate in and to not actually thrive in. And we are very much aware of the history and we have entire components of our curriculum that address the history of kind of the "Founding", quote-unquote, of the United States.
And so really bringing that into a conversation allows us the ability to be able to talk about sovereignty and to be able to talk about land rights. And we bring people in from the Native American Rights Fund to talk about what that means, and our relationship with the federal government and how it is different and what that looks like.
And then, so like that's one piece of it in terms of what the government system looks like now and how we exist in it. But the bigger piece of it is like an awareness of what, how we were governing Pre-Contact: what that looked like for us, how we protected, and how we fought for the environment and protected the environment and how we took care of each other and how there was, there was law and order in some ways.
And then there was like accountability, I guess, is actually what I'm more moving towards, and what that looks like and translating that into like the system of today and ensuring that everyone is represented. And what it is, is like making sure that that not only are Native people aware of what, how tribal sovereignty operates in like the issue of self-governance, which we are very familiar with, but also how we are educating non-Native people in these spaces, to, to be able to engage with Native communities.
And so the issue around redistricting and around laws that are restricting Black and Indigenous and People of Color participation, in terms of voting participation, are beyond egregious. And the ways that we can fight that are to be engaged in these systems. And so we don't have... like, a non-vote is definitely a vote, and we don't have the ability to not participate in these spaces.
So what actually gives me hope is I think about our, we launched our first Native Leadership Institute training in 2021 with 14 brilliant Native leaders who will run for office in the near future. And when they're elected, they will be guided by Indigenous values that remind us that we are all interconnected with every living organism, and that we have a responsibility to protect them in the short time that we have in these bodies.
It sounds a little bit romanticized, but it's how we relate with each other and what makes our leadership so powerful. I'm also hopeful in this moment that in this time of deep unrest, and uncertainty, and social change, is that it is evidence to our ability to adapt, adjust and undo. And re-imagine a whole new political system.
It's obviously not working for the vast majority of us. And our peers are leading the most powerful and phenomenal work together to change it from the inside, outside, and all of the parts around it. And so I feel like what is like the future looks very Indigenous. The future looks very much rooted in Indigenous values in our mind is that like, we are going to have to come back to ways of being that is focusing on protecting our land and natural resources and the environment.
Our family dynamics of figuring out like investing in food justice and what that looks like, and be able to really get back to those spaces and awareness of all of these things that feel so new in some moments-- in that there's like these organizations that are focusing on some of these spaces around like, the latest, like natural foods, or like what's healthy for you. And all of those spaces are coming back to kind of the original values of Indigenous people and cultures from across the world. So we are very much going to be coming back to what is very familiar to Indigenous people and leadership. And it's - we're ready for it.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: I thank you for lifting that up and I appreciate you. I heard some things in there around related to the values and the traditions and the culture of Indigenous people related to how we're interwoven, the pieces around family, and community, accountability.
What is, and I know one thing you named in there was something about sharing about how you help non-Native folks understand this, for someone who may be not as familiar or who is, who is new to learning? What's, what's an example or two of how they could honor these values, traditions, and cultures, or learn more about Indigenous peoples and culture in this way?
Anathea Chino: It's such a great question. There are so many ways we have a number of conversations of like holding non-Native people accountable to doing the learning on their own. I just, I was recently having a conversation around land acknowledgements and around doing that. And that is like such a, a low lift on acknowledging the people who were of the land who have been, since, obviously like relocated, and, and a number of different, very traumatic histories.
But really ultimately like what I believe is like the most, the most important is learning. And there are a number of different books that are available, that are written by Indigenous scholars and Indigenous leaders, to be able to engage with the community. And if you are learning and acknowledging the people who are living in that land, learn more about them.
Seek out the organizations that are doing the work. It was the first thing I did when I moved to Philadelphia - was realize and seek out the organizations that are doing the work, and that are in the community, and that are doing their very best to stay connected to their culture. It's figuring out like where they are gathering. Ask for an invitation.
I think if you are near tribal lands, following protocol, to be able to engage with those communities, there's a way, and a respectful way of engaging in the community and with the community. And like, don't ask them to do the work for you. Do the work on your own. I think that there's a huge amount of responsibility that we have to learn about each other.
And so there's a vast amount of information available on the internet. That does not mean you find the Native person, and ask them a ton of questions about themselves, because that is one experience versus actually taking time to do the work on your own.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Absolutely. Yeah. I appreciate you naming that about the land acknowledgement.
Because it's something that I'm, I've been, it's a practice that even in meetings or other spaces where I name Anacostans, Nacotchtanks, Piscataway peoples. And as I did my own, my research, I, I actually found out there was like a land trust in a way to be able to support folks, particularly Piscataway peoples.
And that has been an important part of how I understand the history of Indigenous people, especially in the area that I'm currently living in and residing on. And so I think that's at a helpful tip and a reminder to myself and others, especially non Native and non-Indigenous folks, to say, "Look, this is a responsibility I have, we have, to learn, to honor, to respect and to continue. Cause it's, it's an ongoing process. And so, thank you for sharing some of that insight and even the work that you are doing within Indigenous and Native communities in the particular systems that we're currently navigating.
You mentioned one thing and I would love to ask you more about this, but you know you mentioned self-governance. Can you share more about what this means to you, and how that has been translated or appropriated in culture today?
Anathea Chino: Absolutely. So self-governance in our communities allows us the ability to have government to government relationships with either the State and/or Federal government.
And this can be translated in a number of different ways. It means that in order to be able to negotiate healthcare, for instance, with the, with the community, is that this is done through the Department of Interior in D.C. And so some of like the, the ways of like operating, and like, how federal government, federal dollars are allocated to federally recognized tribes across the United States is done directly.
And so this also means that infrastructure, all negotiations that are happening around what is happening on our lands, is our land. That is like, we are making those decisions for ourselves. And so what it requires is like Native leaders or non-Native leaders, people who are, who have like Native communities or tribal lands in their district, is that they are negotiating with a federal agency, a sovereign agency in their community. And that has like, then been, um, it's been appropriated in a number of different... One, there's a lot of misunderstanding about what that means. So often what we get is, "Oh, you got college tuition for free. You don't have to pay for taxes. You have all of these, all of these, uh, like living off of the government." And it is, not only is it untrue, but the resources that are allocated are only for people often living on tribal lands, not people living off - over 70% of people live off of tribal lands. And what it also means is that like it is being able to be, um, have a connection to your own community is often met with so many different barriers, that the pathway to be able to receive any sort of resources, like language resources to access, like, language, to access traditional ceremonies, are often, if you do have tribal lands, these are only for people that have tribal lands are often inaccessible to to people because we are, you have to be able to like have access. But in a number of different ways, the dynamic and understanding of sovereignty is, is complex and it's often overlooked and it's often meant to be invisible.
And it's also often challenged by people who don't understand it and feel threatened. Um, and so there, there is, um, there's a number of ways that we have to work to like honor and like maintain our closeness with our communities while living off of tribal lands. That is an entire additional layer of understanding how, how we operate in the world as Indigenous people.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Absolutely. I appreciate you naming that because in my own politicization and understanding, um, you know, I, I've been learning a lot about self-governance and sovereignty, particularly from Native folks. And for me it's, it's it's important framework or thinking around when we are, re-imagining a new political system in many ways.
It's, it's about kind of going back to what things were like Pre-Contact, Pre- Colonization. And that, that, visioning is not necessarily building new things, but it could also mean by going, going back to where we came from and honoring and, um, living the, in the ways in which folks, folks were doing it before colonizers came.
And so I, uh, I appreciate kind of the, you helping more folks understand. I, I also get that it's a, it's something that there's a lot of misunderstanding around. So you kind of sharing more and even offering those examples. I think, um, I'm hoping more folks will, will get more of an understanding and at least pique some interest for folks that continue to do that learning on their own.
Um, uh, I wanna, uh, you know, take a moment now to think back, um, and to think about Anathea at 15 years old. Um, looking back or thinking about Anathea then, what would you tell her and what was she right about or what was she wrong about in that moment?
Anathea Chino: Um, wow. I think I would, I would tell her, I, I, I would tell her that the $2 of gas that you were putting in your mom's car is actually not helpful.
But then I would also tell her that the sentiment is in the right place and that one day I'll be able to be more generous. Um, I think that, like, there's, there's so much to be wrong about in that moment. Um, and like 15 is such an interesting time, um, before you're kind of like, like leaving, um, many for many people, not all It can happen at different times for people when you're leaving a household.
Um, and being able to like, be very indignant about a lot of things. I think like one of the things that I remembered, just um, uh uh, uh about that time, is really being disconnected from my culture and thinking that I was going to leave the United States, and I was going to kind of like a system and in my profession, outside of the United States. And I was so wrong about that. There's like, there are not, there are, no, more ways that I want to be connected. Before we did the podcast, I went outside and I took my corn meal in my hand, and I acknowledged my ancestors, and I acknowledged the land, and I called in all of the people to really be with me through this conversation.
And that is like what I'm doing in my home on Lenape territory in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And there's no way that I could think of being more connected on a regular basis, while I'm taking language classes. And I have pottery around my house and that I am consistently talking about and bringing in. All of like my, um, in the ways that I can invite my tradition and culture into spaces, and I couldn't have been more wrong about feeling that I can do it all on my own.
That is, um, that is, that is highly inaccurate. And I am deeply grateful to have the support of my network of people who are physically here, and people who are with me in spirit, and around me all of the time.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Um, a beautiful reflection back thinking about that moment. Um, and a reminder of why I am excited that you took time with us today, um, to, to share with more folks, um, how much of a boss you are, a Queer Indigenous boss, and uh, one who has, and will continue to inspire, um, inspire to motivate and empower so many of our people and communities, um, and to really build and reimagine that, that new world. I mean, and those new systems, um, where we really are relying on each other in that interwoven interdependence, um, uh, culture and, and, and, and experiences. So, um, thank you, Salamat in Tagalog, Anathea, for your time, your generosity, the spirit, I, I feel so lifted up, um, more after this conversation.
Um, and I'm, I'm excited for more folks to, to experience and hear this - your story.
Anathea Chino: Oh thank you, Greg. I often think of, when I see your videos where you're dancing, how free it feels to just watch you. For so long, I felt so restricted in my own body and like this inability to be able to like, have some freedom, to be able to dance. And there's something so powerful in it. And every time I see one of your videos, that is a reminder of how beautiful and how, how we are moving towards, um, liberation and we're moving towards, um, protecting sovereignty and coming back to, um, these traditional ways of being. And I am fully confident, with people like you in this world, leading this work in partnership with, um, our peers and myself, is that we truly can't stop or be stopped.
Um, is that the, this is a moment of, um, Of incredible change. Um, so I am so, so, so honored to be in this space with you. It is wonderful to see you. Thank you for inviting me into this conversation.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Um, Of course, and uh, to close this out, if there is anything that folks take from this, is that you can be the boss now. You can be that Queer boss, that Indigenous boss, the woman of color boss, be a boss like Anathea, um, and, uh, we're here and there's, there's a network and a community of folks who are going to be supportive and nurture and, um, help you be successful. So it's time to be the boss now. And thank you again.
Gregory Allan Datu Cendana: Thank you for checking out the #BeTheBossNow Podcast with your host Gregory Allan Datu Cendana, President and Co-Founder of Can’t Stop! Won’t Stop! Consulting. We believe you CAN and WILL be a stronger entrepreneur embracing fear, honoring failure, and remaining humble enough to be teachable.
Check out our book, this podcast, and other resources available for those of you current or aspiring bosses at BeTheBossNow.com. Be sure to follow Can’t Stop! Won’t Stop! Consulting and myself on all major social media platforms @CSWSconsulting and @gregorycendana. More information can be found on our website at CSWSConsulting.com.
The Can’t Stop! Won’t Stop! Consulting team would like to thank the following people who were critical to the production of the #BeTheBossNow Podcast:
Vanessa Shiliwala of Thrive Spice Media, Executive Producer
melissa kelley colibri, accessibility coordinator
darryn rousseau hollifield and Stephanie Chao, American Sign Language Interpreters
All my family, friends, educators, and anyone–including the naysayers–who played a role in shaping the boss I am today.
This is for you and for you and everyone with an idea of starting a business, let this be a guide, light, and motivation. We all can be the boss NOW.